NofNA, "Syconium" page #204

Syconium
204

September 22nd, 2017

44 .	by:	September 27, 2017, 11:58 am
It's ok Fig, the comic audience was definitely wondering, at least.

43 .	by:	September 25, 2017, 3:51 pm
Paint me like one of your French stoats.. you know, the stinky ones, polecats.

42 .	by: Furrama	September 23, 2017, 10:18 pm
Society didn't make her maim her boyfriend. A major theme in this comic is duality. She is both the victim and aggressor. At this point in the narrative she has recognized that she has a problem and that she would like to change so that she has something of worth to offer to society, but on her own terms. She hasn't even started thinking about challenging the social stigmas that are associated with her current profession because she can't slay that beast until she's become who she really wants to be. Right now, her story has been very internal. Society has been there, all pressure-y, but it hasn't been the main focus. (S)XY seems aware of outside forces, but hasn't done anything about them because that hasn't been what she's needed help with yet. She has a root issue within herself, and I bet you 1,000 dollars that the duality theme kicks in and we'll see that society is in the midst of parallel journey with its own two halves, and they end up intersecting with hers.

41 .	by: hemlock	September 23, 2017, 9:00 pm
@Witti agreed!

40 .	by: Witticaster	September 23, 2017, 8:58 pm
@hemlock, yeah, you're right, 'voluntary' isn't correct. I can see how my post comes off as victim-blaming and honestly that's what bugs me about this story; that's what it seems to be promoting. In her society, under its influence, she made or was coerced into those decisions. But this story seems to have ZERO interest in changing society or its influence. That means unless she changes herself, she will continue to make or be coerced into those same types of choices forever. The impetus is on HER, and that's absolutely victim-blaming, and I don't like that the story seems to have been constructed this way.

39 .	by: hemlock	September 23, 2017, 6:09 pm
I love the story but I'm always struck by how much the animal/cartoon framing tends to limit the impact of the situation. Sometimes I feel like, if you imagined a human brothel, where a young psyche student visits a person weekly who is beaten for failure, to do personal research while taking them out with a shock collar around their neck, never really protesting, only to come back and take art lessons in the same brothel is super fucked up.

38 .	by: hemlock	September 23, 2017, 6:00 pm
It's like...when you say someone believes, this strongly, to the point of disassociation that she's worthless and only good for one thing to the point where she finds a situation where she's literally collared and threatened with physical violence normalized...that that came upon and counties truly voluntarily? What about where those feelings came from? What shaped that?

37 .	by: hemlock	September 23, 2017, 5:56 pm
Ehhh the idea that someone made the free-will conscious choice to be essentially sold into sex slavery and 'stay', and that becoming their responsibility regardless of circumstance or societal or emotional pressure comes off pretty gross to me, especially considering situations like this happen in real life. Rather than rant about this again I'll just link research/accounts. URL : http://linkbun.ch/05a1j

36 .	by: Juna	September 23, 2017, 3:54 pm
@Witticaster, I thought the trailing italics were on purpose. It's a nice effect! But yea, I'm right with you on there. There have really been only a few moments in the narrative where we see characters making specific criticisms of the system they're in, like with Acai and Plum's angst about credit, or the VD getting guilty feet over, you know, having this much power over the courtesans' lives. Acai and VD were probably the closest to acknowledging their own role in upholding it, too. But otherwise that's been cast in the background. That could be thematically appropriate, in a way: the hidden roots that constrain individual freedom. And Smoothie and XX have skirted that theme in their conversations, but in a heady conversation about sexualization. I guess it's up to us as the audience to connect those societal dots as XX is navigating her own way out of the maze.

35 .	by:	September 23, 2017, 1:49 pm
I feel like it's taken me so long to put things together, too long. She doesn't do oral because of her chompers, doesn't she? And the supposed wound she inflicted on Green.

34 .	by: Witticaster	September 23, 2017, 1:24 pm
...that said, it's an extremely common story frame. Not everything can or should be a political narrative and there's value in emphasizing personal accountability within a system that, realistically, most individuals can't change on their own. Also, panels 2 and 3 crack me right up. I'm done now.

33 .	by: Witticaster	September 23, 2017, 1:19 pm
All that said? I hate that this is the way the story seems to be going. I hate when the wealthy, the privileged, the people who choose to MAKE 'the system" the way it is are seemingly given a free pass by the author, while all the impetus and expectation is put on the beaten-down have-nots to be revolutionary and fight against "the system" - as if it were some kind of monolithic natural phenomenon instead of a construct that was directly and actively built by other characters in the story. Even Greenie is a victim of this. He didn't make the brothel, he didn't encourage society to behave like this towards prostitutes, he's awful but he's also largely just reacting to a lifetime of mistreatment and subjugation by grabbing any opportunity he sees. People like the VD, Acai and Smoothie are the ones who actively work to create these places and attitudes, but WAY more story time is spent narratively condemning XX and Greenie for failing to buck up and defeat the system that has used and abused them, and almost none is spent condemning those who actually created (and actively maintain) that system in the first place. It's obviously not that simple, and it's just my interpretation, and the story isn't over, but it irks me deeply right now.

32 .	by: Furrama	September 23, 2017, 12:44 pm
@Witticaster Gasp Sinner!

31 .	by: Witticaster	September 23, 2017, 12:42 pm
Oh god, I forgot to close an italics tag.

30 .	by: Witticaster	September 23, 2017, 12:33 pm
Nice discussion. Smoothie reminds me of the male main character in Ex Machina, except he doesn't even try to rescue the object of his affections. I hate when destructive and thoughtless actions get a free pass because the person performing them is 'nice' and 'means well'. That said... I think Smoothie, for all his many deep flaws, is exactly what XX needs. We can talk about encouraging societal pressures all we want, but the bottom line is that XX ultimately bowed to them. She put herself in this situation voluntarily. She chose to prioritize sex work. She chose to stay with Greenie when he turned their house into a sex den. She chose to come to the brothel and chooses to stay there every day. If she wanted to, she could walk away any time! But she doesn't. She chose these things because deep down, she feels that her true self and her true passion are worthless. She stays because she thinks her body is the only valuable thing she has to offer to her audience. Look at the end of page 32 and tell me your heart doesn't shatter every time. This is the ONE thing Smoothie is doing right: he's telling her (literally), over and over, "your art has value." This hot, nice, smart, wealthy person wholeheartedly supports her art choices to the point that he wants to be her pupil. THAT is the only thing that can truly help her: believing her artistic vision is amazing and worth sacrificing for. I doubt anyone has EVER told her this about her abstract work. I doubt she's EVER had a single art fan unless she was doing inauthentic 'nice' drawings. Having someone support her real passion - having them reciprocate her lifelong attempts at communication - is groundbreaking. She can't be rescued from this... but she doesn't need to be. When she believes in herself, there won't be a bodily instinct or societal force in the world that can hold her back.

29 .	by: kuu	September 23, 2017, 10:43 am
well Chestnut wrote a poem right about the problems going on?

28 .	by:	September 23, 2017, 4:21 am
i miss acai and lemon and plum

27 .	by:	September 23, 2017, 1:36 am
@15 Very agree and been thinking a lot of this, double after having taken some time to re-read everything up to now last night. Glad you wrote this because trying to get thoughts down has been hard and comes out far too lengthy. To back up your view of Smoothie with his own words... have no real reason to believe in Smoothie as challenging any of the on going precepts that have put Fig/XX here when he believes, in the words of his own lecture, that "[sex] commandeers our power of art ... in order to compete with and undermine it" and that "[sex] cordons off people from achieving parity". He offers no space for a balance or a middle road, just a position most characters seems to only see two sides to.

26 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 10:50 pm
@24 Scarface is a common nickname for the boss rat (who died.) Hey, just as an aside, I'm a diehard Chestnut-Did-It conspiracy theorist, but has it ever been theorized that Scarface died of natural causes and it just happened to LOOK like a murder? He wasn't very healthy, and rats don't live very long. He might have just had a heart attack or something, and the offputting smell of the liquor was a red herring.

25 .	by: Furrama	September 22, 2017, 9:27 pm
@Zack Hey, my perception only goes so far, I can't spell a name correctly even when it's right in front of me. ;)

24 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 9:15 pm
@22 who is scarface and what did he do ?

23 .	by: Juna	September 22, 2017, 8:52 pm
Oh, I mean, in my first paragraph conflate* might be a better word than 'interchange'. Or even, that whole part is sort of confused. I mean to say, Smoothie has a window into XX's state right now (and her Fig), but doesn't have the perspective to see who and what pushed her there (the trees).

22 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 8:41 pm
I do agree that Smoothie's picture of sexuality is missing something when it comes to reconciling XX's affinity to both art and sex. We've seen their past conversations, and the two usually end up at a loss for words when they edge up right to the 'meatus' of Society and the Animal (where art/sex seems to mediate?) Another issue is that his conversations interchange capital S Sex as a conceptual force in society, and the lived realities of having sex. Or in this case, being a sex worker and living under this specific controlling environment. I guess you could say, he sees the fig at the expense of seeing the trees...ha, sorry. He also doesn't know anything about XX's more balanced lifestyle when she was an independent sex worker, from what we can tell. Having decent money, financing her art, having an outlet for her libido, etc etc. I don't hold it against Smoothie, admittedly, because his form of therapy -is- helping her restore some confidence in her art, which could help her reverse the alienation and trauma she's suffered because of Scarface, then Greenie's decisions over Fig Trees. Like @19 suggests, I think his main intention is to demystify the force of sex and the moral overtones surrounding its alleged ultimate power. However, he doesn't have the language or experience to be able to do that yet. (And I hope XX is able to succeed there!) So in the present, his round of treatment is still uncomfortably close to the 'good side' of Upstanding/Degenerate. But his therapy has at least helped XX push back against the demoralization she's gone through in Fig Trees, which she's internalized as part of Fig herself, which brings me to my next point... It's hard to make my call because Fig the persona really represents a lot of conflicting influences on XX. She's in a way society's self-fulfilling fear about sex (violent and consuming), XX's own attempt to rebel against that society, and the embodiment of the people around her who made her feel worthless practicing her own art. She made Fig but Fig was also made by them, and I hope she'll have the chance to reclaim herself. Ghost XX and Fig both! Right now, Smoothie's been good at supporting the unexpressed part of XX, but he's only offered partial answers for the future of Fig. Smoothie could stand to have a better awareness over the other issues the storyline has brushed by so far: the role authorities (possibly his own institution!) and brothels play in reinforcing the fear/awe of sex, and the material benefit ppl gain from it, where credit falls in that, etc. But I get the feeling we'll be sticking to XX's own journey of self-reclamation, with some hints at what her story could mean for society. Like 10+% except she gets to keep her halo (fingers crossed). That's what I've settled my mind on, for now. It's hard to word all my observations on this because everyone in this arc is piecing together their own meaning as much as we're here analyzing them and adding our perspectives on the story.

21 .	by: Zack	September 22, 2017, 7:50 pm
Hi Furrama, Thank you for pointing out the missing patch above his nose. I forgot to draw this feature (again). It has now been corrected.

20 .	by: Furrama	September 22, 2017, 6:34 pm
@19 Good comment! It's no mistake that both boys are named XY. I think the jury is still out at HIOT proper from what that officer mouse who rode the wolf said way back when, but Scruffy and Smoothie/(S)XY are running a study to figure that out for HIOT and society as a whole. Scruffy has come out on the side of (E)XY and Fig. (S)XY is on XX's side. I guess HIOT/society/we will find out who's stronger by the end. I'm not sure if this is going to be a "we need to find a middle ground" or a "we need to rid ourselves of our vices" sort of story yet. But uh, looking at those last few panels neither Fig or XX look like they're ready to roll over quite yet. I think Fig has noticed that XX is getting stronger under her paw and that's going to make Fig push harder for dominance.

19 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 6:22 pm
I think Smoothie's thesis is in direct competition with Greenie's, and XX (who did not choose to be here but was entrapped by Greenie's philosophy) is now trapped between the two of them. They've only had one physical interaction but Smoothie is trying to get XX out (and thereby proving that sex doesn't have ultimate power over people) and Greenie is trying to keep her in (because he believes it does.) The problem is, HIOT ALSO agrees that sex has an ultimate power over people. Smoothie's thesis is actually also at odds with HIOT. Sexual activity is being marginalized as dangerous to society because society currently sides with Greenie. Smoothie's views are progressive, because he says society is no longer based on the immutable drive of sex, and sex can exist as a social device without being an hindrance to progress.

18 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 5:42 pm
@16 I hope this isn't read in a confrontational tone, but a sincere one: do you really think the end-result of XY's ideas would be 'society is more likely to allow sex-works to reintegrate back into society into others jobs'? Wouldn't it only increase viewing this past as lowly, and damage her future more? Wouldn't it decrease sympathy for having 'succumb' to this lifestyle? At best the rhetoric might earn her pity her as a victim of the great inner animal or something, which doesn't give much credit to her.... Basically, I don't think XY's rhetoric would decrease violence upon her, because I think it's connected TO the same mechanism that is causing Fig's current violent environment. What about people who enjoy this work, if not for the abusive environment, anyway? It requires a skillset as much as customer service. Why see it as anything different than a bougie spa? XY's research wouldn't really help XX 'move on' to another vocation or make the skills and time she spent there seen for the value it has. It'd render her work/accomplishments to nothingness

17 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 5:07 pm
@15, I'd need to reread to get a better handle, but I agree with you about XY. He definitely thinks he's doing the right thing, but his biases blind him. I do hope that part of his character growth will be in unlearning sex negativity (if I'm using the term correctly.) Fortunately I think we have a lot of story left for us to get there!

16 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 4:53 pm
Mirror Fig is useful in the moment, a suit of armor to protect XX from her environment and experiences. Once XX has a place in society that does not frequently do violence upon her, Mirror Fig won't be necessary, and the behaviors she exhibits will be detrimental outside of a desperate situation.

15 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 4:35 pm
i just want to vent a little here. I don't understand XY. He sees firsthand the unfair, cruel conditions of the sexworkers-- he understands the forceful hand society has placed over Fig, due entirely to how society looks down on sex and thinks of it as primitive and lowly. It was HIOT research quoted at Fig while she was kicked out of her house and forced into brothel work. It's hard for me to see him as sympathetic at all, when he doesn't do anything to help or improve her life or challenge the system (in whatever way he can academically), if it doesn't also benefit his personal agenda (if that). Functionally, he does nothing, as far as I've seen. His thesis, if anything, is of the same school of thought that sees her job as ugly work for idiots. He wants her to pursue her art, but to what end? What solution is there for Fig's actual, lived life? He can talk about sex forever. He wants her to see the truth about sex and defeat or 'seek parity' (but preferably defeat) this part of her-- and THEN what? We already see a Fig without it would be vulnerable and depressed. The persona has offered her confidence, protection, and vitality in this hellscape. He refuses to see that as valuable or important. He keeps talking about Fig as if she's better/greater than this thing that is as much a part of her as the part /he prefers because it coincides with his already-extant bias he entered this situation with/. He doesn't give her credit for this strength she possesses-- in fact he consistently calls it weakness! His rhetoric reads as self-centered and stubborn to me, and not accounting for her actual, lived reality. The VOLCEL aspect held over Fig's head with his own language about it being equated to strength (really?) isn't really charming to me. Especially not in present company. It's ugly. I can see why his name is also XY. So far we've only seen XY's rhetoric (which doesn't feel, to me, ANY different from ANY of the other jackholes around here?) further wedging her apart. He can make her feel good sometimes, and he might genuinely feel he's kind and has best interest at heart, but I can sincerely only see a man with his own thesis and agenda so clouded by it not caring (and not realizing he isn't caring) about the collateral damage it does to someone's actual life. He lives so much in his theories and prioritizes them, and doesn't pay enough attention to anything not immediately benefiting his endgoal (which is bad research). I think respecting your opponent in research (even just temporarily) and thus giving it due attention is the only way to really, truly make a meaningful conclusion. He constantly demeans it. His thesis come to conclusion would only add more fire to the same societal ideas & concepts that got her in this position, and keeps her in this position. Lets say XY proves sex is a basal urge we are all better than, sure. What then? What changes for Fig, beyond that her vocation is only seen as more lowly, for primitive humans who don't deserve equal respect and admiration for their work and expertise? As something shameful good humans don't stoop to? I know I know 'just read another comic' but man. I'm hanging in here hoping any of my inklings about XY will be vindicated, even tho I'm feeling its increasingly unlikely with how he's been framed and 'mirror' Fig has been. I can't personally feel bad for how he's hurt by this persona that he's responsible for escalating with his careless, selfish, asinine rhetoric.

14 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 4:06 pm
I know, I'm not saying he has no reason to be annoyed. I'm surprised he came back at all, too. It's just. You know it's serious when he gets annoyed at her.

13 .	by: Furrama	September 22, 2017, 2:59 pm
Well, he's struggling too, and he has the nightmare dream teeth in the back of his head. We can't forget the very real scar on his face. It's honestly amazing that he's still here at all.

12 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 2:15 pm
Dang, this is the first time we've seen him annoyed with her.

11 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 1:12 pm
I really like the last two panels. Even without Fig's full facial expression, her eyes show us exactly how she feels. Although, I wonder why she's gazing up, instead of at XX. @9 I think in this case XX is talking directly to Shadow Fig/Nega Fig/the parasite. I'm still not sure how perceivable XX's voice is to the physical Fig though. Maybe she feels XX's intentions instead? Also, Smoothie's drawing skills are really shaping up.

10 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 9:17 am
"taking you over like a parasite"

9 .	by: kuu	September 22, 2017, 6:43 am
last few panels she is talking to herself/fig in her mind?

8 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 3:43 am
Interesting seeing our main character represent both sides of sexual abuse. She's pushed out of society and mistreated as a sex worker (and told that penetration would make her body "worn out"), but she's also here the perpetrator of sexual harassment against someone who's made his unhappiness clear.

7 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 2:16 am
She's pinching buttons!

6 .	by: Furrama	September 22, 2017, 1:40 am
Hey, is this the same visit as the page before? His brown nose marking is gone.

5 .	by: Furrama	September 22, 2017, 1:35 am
Yeah, that's baby XX's text color.

4 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 1:31 am
Oh no, my bad, she has always spoken in that color in dreams.

3 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 1:29 am
I couldn't figure out who was speaking at the end, I thought maybe her mother? But no, if you go back all the way to the prologue, that's XX's color. I don't think she (dream!XX) has ever spoken in color as an adult?

2 .	by: Addition to comment 1	September 22, 2017, 1:01 am
Or rather, it was supposed to be art. Not primal desire.

1 .	by:	September 22, 2017, 12:56 am
So... a few thoughts just clicked together. A while back, Smooth asked if someone had misconstrued her intentions, and made her feel as if this is the way it should be. Then a few pages back she admitted what she was trying to say was taken all wrong, that the communication was bad. She never wanted to be a prostitute, did she. She enjoys sex, and saw it as a way to make money, and rolled with it. She never wanted to be in a place like this, though. It was supposed to be fun, at the least.